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[ 195 posts ] |
Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !
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Space Station Member ![]() ![]()
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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JamesG wrote: ![]() I saw this in a science mag today..it is a wind generator of some kind...a prop inside in a tube. _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Space Station Member ![]() ![]()
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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Hypothetical use for the highflyer.
It is at 85 000 - 90 000 kg now and possibly unable to get into orbit but can still fly high and carry all this with just wingloading of 50-60 kg/m2. 5 times heavier than an SOLAR IMPULSE but 10 times lighter than a 747 ( in wing loading ). BTW here Bill Lear claims that his pusher ( LF 2100 ) was 4 times more efficient than a regular turboprop; https://books.google.fi/books?id=pQtWZO ... nt&f=false Lear Fans 11 mpg means 2.1 liters / 100 km / passenger..beats an A380 hands down in efficiency. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Spaceflight Trainee ![]() ![]()
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:50 am
Posts: 34 Location: Yakima, Washington, U.S. of A. ![]() |
Getting an air craft to 80 kilometers would be quite a feat, I guess, but what is the point? Are you intending to launch a spacecraft from your airplane? How big is the space craft? What is so special about 80 km? That altitude is above the effective service ceiling of just about anything called an airplane, as airfoils will not work at that altitude. Therefore, the craft must use rockets to keep from falling back to Earth, unless it is traveling fast enough to reach orbit.
If you want to use aircraft in launching spacecraft, the aircraft should be a specialized design, not something which was created for some other purpose than carrying mass to altitude. Most planes are designed with the idea of carrying the payload internally, and carrying it from one place to another, as quickly and as cheaply as possible. This means that they have large fuselages, which create drag, and the wings are often swept, to reduce drag at jet speeds. When lifting mass to altitude, you want a straight wing, which is capable of lots of lift at low speed. The wing will probably either be very long, or the aircraft will be a biplane. There will be no fuselage, the crew cabin will be built into the wing, and two tail booms will project back away from the wing to increase stability. This also keeps the tail away from the exhaust of the spacecraft as the spacecraft prepares to launch off of the back of the wing. The maximum altitude that the carrier wing could reach would depend on how much power it had, the amount of fuel that it carries, and the weight of the spacecraft it carries. Aircraft either have to go very fast, or have a lot of wing area to climb much past about 60,000 feet. _________________ My God, it's full of stars! |
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:40 am
Posts: 476 Location: California and Michigan ![]() |
what about a hybrid? a flying wing, that was lighter then air, one it floats as high as its lift from the lighter then air could go, burn it (hydrogen) and deflate and change shape with speed?
_________________ Let not the bindings of society hold you back from improving it.... the masses follow where the bold explore. |
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Moon Mission Member ![]() ![]()
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:15 pm
Posts: 1050 Location: Columbus, GA USA ![]() |
Even in large volumes gaseous H2 won't get you much. Its not worth the trouble. You are better off just ditching the wing/lift envelop ala: "rockoon".
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Spaceflight Trainee ![]() ![]()
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:50 am
Posts: 34 Location: Yakima, Washington, U.S. of A. ![]() |
topspeed wrote: JamesG wrote: ![]() I saw this in a science mag today..it is a wind generator of some kind...a prop inside in a tube. A portable wind turbine, held aloft by helium or hydrogen gas, able to generate a few kilowatts in the right conditions. One of the things that many people are unaware of is that wind turbines are only effective in a narrow range of wind speeds. _________________ My God, it's full of stars! |
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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As I was designing a really efficient solar powered ( + battery ) airliner I realized that this can also be fitted with rocket engines...if no passengers.
If any this could punch the hole in the space. ![]() We actually counted it could reach the orbit. The empty weight of the craft is simimar to SI II ( 2300 kg ) but the loaded weight is ( due to huge available surface area ) is 12 000 kg for the space mission. Delta V is quite sufficient ! With same wing area as the biggest 747 it has just 1/37,5 the mass of the 747 ! You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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Some tuning and adjusting.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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A 1/4 or so called quarter scale plane would be something like this.
Possibly 5000 euros all the equipments for it. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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Here a 20 KM/S version with ION-thruster !
20 times bigger thruster than in Dawn probe. ![]() ![]() You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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....and here are 3 x BARSOOM SCOOTERS ( ground effect vehicles inside ).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Space Station Member ![]() ![]()
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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The speed counted with centripetal force included tells that the speed at 100 km will have to be at around 16 500 km/t ( M 15.8 ).
Rocket engines need to be rated at 10 kN max ( give or take 5 kN ). Their compressor is runned with solar power. Speeds are: M1 @ 50 km M3 @ 65 km M8 @ 80 km _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Space Station Member ![]() ![]()
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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I have been thinkin the other possibilies of a aeroplanelike spaceship !
Think about great speeds..like 100 km/s or even 0.01 C where the particles in space ( 1 at cm3 at least ) hit the surfaces. The Solar Eagle has all turning elevator of 70 m2 size and it weighs just 7-25 metric tons. I claim it is fully steerable at great speeds if flying like an aeroplane. This needs some designing and research sure. I call this phenomena now on as spacedynamic feature. ![]() _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Space Station Member ![]() ![]()
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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This thread is awesome ( for me ) as I had totally forgotten the WARE number I created.
I have also created an other number to study the efficiency of the lite aircraft. It is the WIPO-ratio...and it translates as wingloading/powerloading which tells me if my design is more or less efficient than U-2 or HK-1 Spruce Goose in this aspect ( and it sure is..it also has to if it needs to go to space ). _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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Space Station Member ![]() ![]()
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
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Finally cracked the code.
Until 18 km with electric and then as a hybrid to 50 km with props and rockets. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/ http://max3fan.blogspot.com/ |
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