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Minimum craft to Mars and back !

Posted by: topspeed - Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:09 pm
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Minimum craft to Mars and back !
https://xprizenews.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13173
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Author:  topspeed [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

RGClark wrote:
With orbital propellant depots at both departure and arrival points a single reusable rocket stage could do all steps from LEO departure to Mars orbital insertion, to Mars landing, to liftoff up to Mars orbit, to return back to Earth:

Propellant depots for interplanetary flight.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... etary.html

Bob Clark



I love it.

I have now a single stage system...it looks way cooler in many ways. Landing on Mars as an aeroplane would the thing to do next !!!

Author:  topspeed [ Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

I counted some WAYPOINT figures for the crafts ascent to orbit.

Interesting is that the craft has to reach almost orbital speed below 100 km to be able to fly to orbit.

M3 at 60 km and weight 56 metric tons.

M15 at 85 km and 31 tons weight ( rocket fuel burned away ).

Author:  topspeed [ Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

I still haven't answered myself...what is the minimum craft to go to Mars.

I have studied a 120 m spanning and 80 m spanning version so far.

If Clark paper previously is valid we can possibly reach there with 60 m spanning craft with 1-3 people on board.

As the waypoints indicate those speeds at those altitude keep the temperature below 300 C + degrees.

Author:  topspeed [ Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

Latest SSTO version.

According to Bob Clark..the journey to Mars will take 35 days.

Author:  topspeed [ Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

Orion "wingloding" in re-entry is not bigger that on a 747 in flight...just 529 kg/m2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)

Above mentioned craft ...when tanks empty has just 20 kg/m2 wing loading ( possibly just 15 kg/m2 )...thus makes it more likely to slow down before the heating layer of the atmosphere ( 80 km ) even starts.

Could this be favourable in space flight ?

Author:  topspeed [ Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

I did some calculations...and it starts braking already at 180 km altitude...with gradually intensifying to 100 km altitude..it can/could fly normally before the heating altiutude of 80 km even starts.

Author:  topspeed [ Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

Hello and Merry Christmas !


I'd like to ask if anyone is interested of making a Kerosene/LOX rocket engine to be used in a 20 m spanning man flying model to reach 50 km altitude to test the systems ?

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Author:  topspeed [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

I purhased electric engines and propellers etc for a 1/60 scale flying model of the space ship. There seems to be no rocket engines in that size...so I just test the re-entry and recovery stuff and genelal flying caracteristics with the model ( which is also a 1/4 scale model of the 1/15 sized manned test model ).

Author:  topspeed [ Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

Here is the new system to gain more altitude...lotsa batteries and 30% edfficient solar panels...bigger has 3,5 x the batteries as Solar Impulse Ii and the rocket ship 2,5 times.

I estimate ( calculated once ) M3 at 27 ( after 15 km dive ) before igniting the rocket engine.

Could that be WISE ?

The re-entry is easy with the smaller one as it can brake from 180 km to 85 km to fly normally at low speed through the heat sensible 30-80 km altitude.

Author:  topspeed [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minimum craft to Mars and back !

Getting above the heating layer at sub sonic speed is the key for cheap space travel. In both directions...shuttle heated in 50-80 km in re-entry...and this pushes the slow down in to region 80-120 km where shuttle started to interact with atmosphere...aerodynamically...naturally as it is 25 x lighter...plane than any other system....the hypersonic speeds at relatively high speed in "extremely loose" air becomes sorta normal flying at very low wing loading before the heating starts.

The Baumgartner experience shows that a "craft" slow enough...no longer faces the feared compression in the thinner and thinner air above us. When nearing space.

Only F=ma and drag and lift equation prevail....with known supersonic aerodynamics of course....with "Baumgartner experience" in mind. How can I put it better...no compression but still not quite like at subsonic speeds...new thing to ponder I guess.

Navier Stokes and other "low level" aerodynamics sorta loose the touch in this..possibly..as it flies more or less in a mush ( deep stall )...but controlled still...above 120 km that is. Also the fact that heating starts in 80 km at M25 tells us a lot about the phenomena..of flying in thin air. In space nothing heats up...until at relativistic speeds. 80-300 km is something in between...space and known aerodynamics. This needs sorta brain capacity to model it out.

Nothing new...von Braun figured this out right after Yaeger flew Mach 1 in 1947.

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