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Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Posted by: topspeed - Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:45 am
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Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !
https://xprizenews.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12813
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Author:  topspeed [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

JamesG wrote:
Image

I saw this in a science mag today..it is a wind generator of some kind...a prop inside in a tube.

Author:  topspeed [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Hypothetical use for the highflyer.

It is at 85 000 - 90 000 kg now and possibly unable to get into orbit but can still fly high and carry all this with just wingloading of 50-60 kg/m2.

5 times heavier than an SOLAR IMPULSE but 10 times lighter than a 747 ( in wing loading ).

BTW here Bill Lear claims that his pusher ( LF 2100 ) was 4 times more efficient than a regular turboprop; https://books.google.fi/books?id=pQtWZO ... nt&f=false

Lear Fans 11 mpg means 2.1 liters / 100 km / passenger..beats an A380 hands down in efficiency.

Author:  halman [ Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Getting an air craft to 80 kilometers would be quite a feat, I guess, but what is the point? Are you intending to launch a spacecraft from your airplane? How big is the space craft? What is so special about 80 km? That altitude is above the effective service ceiling of just about anything called an airplane, as airfoils will not work at that altitude. Therefore, the craft must use rockets to keep from falling back to Earth, unless it is traveling fast enough to reach orbit.

If you want to use aircraft in launching spacecraft, the aircraft should be a specialized design, not something which was created for some other purpose than carrying mass to altitude. Most planes are designed with the idea of carrying the payload internally, and carrying it from one place to another, as quickly and as cheaply as possible. This means that they have large fuselages, which create drag, and the wings are often swept, to reduce drag at jet speeds.

When lifting mass to altitude, you want a straight wing, which is capable of lots of lift at low speed. The wing will probably either be very long, or the aircraft will be a biplane. There will be no fuselage, the crew cabin will be built into the wing, and two tail booms will project back away from the wing to increase stability. This also keeps the tail away from the exhaust of the spacecraft as the spacecraft prepares to launch off of the back of the wing.

The maximum altitude that the carrier wing could reach would depend on how much power it had, the amount of fuel that it carries, and the weight of the spacecraft it carries. Aircraft either have to go very fast, or have a lot of wing area to climb much past about 60,000 feet.

Author:  Sigma [ Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

what about a hybrid? a flying wing, that was lighter then air, one it floats as high as its lift from the lighter then air could go, burn it (hydrogen) and deflate and change shape with speed?

Author:  JamesG [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Even in large volumes gaseous H2 won't get you much. Its not worth the trouble. You are better off just ditching the wing/lift envelop ala: "rockoon".

Author:  halman [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

topspeed wrote:
JamesG wrote:
Image

I saw this in a science mag today..it is a wind generator of some kind...a prop inside in a tube.


A portable wind turbine, held aloft by helium or hydrogen gas, able to generate a few kilowatts in the right conditions. One of the things that many people are unaware of is that wind turbines are only effective in a narrow range of wind speeds.

Author:  topspeed [ Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

As I was designing a really efficient solar powered ( + battery ) airliner I realized that this can also be fitted with rocket engines...if no passengers.

If any this could punch the hole in the space. :wink:

We actually counted it could reach the orbit. The empty weight of the craft is simimar to SI II ( 2300 kg ) but the loaded weight is ( due to huge available surface area ) is 12 000 kg for the space mission.

Delta V is quite sufficient !

With same wing area as the biggest 747 it has just 1/37,5 the mass of the 747 !

Author:  topspeed [ Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Some tuning and adjusting.

Author:  topspeed [ Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

A 1/4 or so called quarter scale plane would be something like this.

Possibly 5000 euros all the equipments for it.

Author:  topspeed [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Here a 20 KM/S version with ION-thruster !

20 times bigger thruster than in Dawn probe.

:wink:
:mrgreen:

Author:  topspeed [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

....and here are 3 x BARSOOM SCOOTERS ( ground effect vehicles inside ).

Author:  topspeed [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

The speed counted with centripetal force included tells that the speed at 100 km will have to be at around 16 500 km/t ( M 15.8 ).

Rocket engines need to be rated at 10 kN max ( give or take 5 kN ). Their compressor is runned with solar power.

Speeds are:

M1 @ 50 km
M3 @ 65 km
M8 @ 80 km

Author:  topspeed [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

I have been thinkin the other possibilies of a aeroplanelike spaceship !

Think about great speeds..like 100 km/s or even 0.01 C where the particles in space ( 1 at cm3 at least ) hit the surfaces.

The Solar Eagle has all turning elevator of 70 m2 size and it weighs just 7-25 metric tons.

I claim it is fully steerable at great speeds if flying like an aeroplane. This needs some designing and research sure.

I call this phenomena now on as spacedynamic feature. :wink:

Author:  topspeed [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

This thread is awesome ( for me ) as I had totally forgotten the WARE number I created.

I have also created an other number to study the efficiency of the lite aircraft. It is the WIPO-ratio...and it translates as wingloading/powerloading which tells me if my design is more or less efficient than U-2 or HK-1 Spruce Goose in this aspect ( and it sure is..it also has to if it needs to go to space ).

Author:  topspeed [ Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Finally cracked the code.

Until 18 km with electric and then as a hybrid to 50 km with props and rockets.

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