Community > Forum > The Spaceflight Cafe > Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !

Posted by: topspeed - Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:45 am
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 195 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude ! 
Author Message
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:04 am
There was a small glitch still so I ironed it out and now SOLAR EAGLE transforms into STAR EAGLE.

Whadda ya say ladies and gentlemen ?

This is now able to leave the orbit at 15 km/s ( obrbital speed + craft speed ).


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:26 pm
Here is a hypothetical mission that can be pulled of by using 2 SOLAR EAGLE crafts.

One is send before hand to Jupiter so that it takes a route closer to Saturn and another lauches 8 months later a Tinman POD at 200-900 km/s via Mercury to Saturn. Then sends 2 service modules the same route 2 weeks after to Saturn to support the TINMAN's long trip for one astronaut.

:mrgreen:

Any comments ?


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:58 pm
Small correction here.

After M5 flight with props ( rpm 1400 ) the plane needs still 6019 m/s to reach LEO.

:wink:

Of course you have to believe the plane will go supersonic with a prop that high...as did Baumgartner without a prop ( went supersonic ).

We counted the prop will be good for M8 speed structurally, but the temperatures rose so we hold it back to M5. Then ballistic to upstairs..slowly first and at then at the end levelling with tramendous acceleration.

Viscosity, pressure and density are all really low that high enabling supersonic prop flight at 70 km with M4-5.

In rocket mode as Star Eagle the craft has wing loading of 33 kg/m2 first and about 10 kg/m2 at the end of the burn..so about 80 times less than the X-15..this is the key aspect here...to go as slow as possible as long as possible to LEO ( to avoid too much heating ).


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:46 am
Hello everyone !

Does anyone agree that this could be viable way to reach orbit ?

rgds,

Juke

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Moon Mission Member
Moon Mission Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:15 pm
Posts: 1050
Location: Columbus, GA USA
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:08 pm
Nope. Just use a big ol' rocket.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:42 pm
JamesG wrote:
Nope. Just use a big ol' rocket.



Okei JamesG.

I think you don't see the advantages is this.

Only 65 tons of fuel to get to the orbit with a ship that can sustain life in space.

I think I have to stop messing around with this...I am clearly 100 years head of my time.


:wink: :mrgreen:

rgds,


Juke

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Moon Mission Member
Moon Mission Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:15 pm
Posts: 1050
Location: Columbus, GA USA
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:59 pm
65 tons of fuel burned and thrown out the back is better than dragging several tons of propellers and wings into high altitude/space where you don't need them. You are actually about 50 years late where these concepts were considered, analyzed, and discarded because they weren't as efficient or simple as other means.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:00 pm
JamesG wrote:
65 tons of fuel burned and thrown out the back is better than dragging several tons of propellers and wings into high altitude/space where you don't need them. You are actually about 50 years late where these concepts were considered, analyzed, and discarded because they weren't as efficient or simple as other means.


James the solar panels still produce thrust for the props in the re-entry and and can have a reverse thrust if you will.

Also you can make a touch and go ..at least extent the distance where to shoot for landing.

Propellors like contras can be used as aileron control in the rocket phase...a very crucial feature in this craft. Very very necessary also !

You miss the big picture here JamesG, with all due respect !

Dropping of the wings at 80 km and having enormous thrust will actually now in the new version drop the fuel to 45 000 kg with 4 000 kg to LEO.

It is totally reusable...again and again...think of all the savings and possibilities in space travel with the TINMAN rocket. Easy to conquer Mars and Europa..perhaps even Pandora near Saturn.

Now in its new size it is cheaper to build than a Boeing 747.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Space Walker
Space Walker
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:08 am
Posts: 116
Location: Mojave Desert California
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:49 am
Build it, make it work and customers (money) will come to you.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:50 pm
Rick Maschek wrote:
Build it, make it work and customers (money) will come to you.


You are right Rick !

I think I could make it in 1/20 ( 1/25 ) scale as a one man flying model in under 70 kg class.

Anyone know a person who has a thick wallet and no idea for an efficient space ship yet ?

:wink:

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:01 am
Posts: 766
Location: New Zealand
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:04 pm
What speed are your propeller tips doing at that size, and what are they made of?

_________________
What goes up better doggone well stay up! - Morgan Gravitronics, Company Slogan.


Back to top
Profile ICQ YIM
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:35 pm
idiom wrote:
What speed are your propeller tips doing at that size, and what are they made of?


I think they could be made of carbon fibre. They are now rotating 120 rounds faster to reach the speed of sound at 400 rpm. So 1600 rpm for Mach 4 and 2000 even for Mach 5.

Pretty kewl !?

:mrgreen:

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:01 am
Posts: 766
Location: New Zealand
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:04 am
Apart from the lack of existing materials that can operate continuously at mach 5... let alone as a propeller tip in a continuous sonic boom next to multiple other sources of shock it will moving in and out of many times a second, the power draw will be truly enormous.

Quote:
The tip of the propeller on many early aircraft may reach supersonic speeds, producing a noticeable buzz that differentiates such aircraft. This is particularly noticeable on the Stearman, and noticeable on the North American T-6 Texan when it enters a sharp-breaking turn. This is undesirable, as the transonic air movement creates disruptive shock waves and turbulence. It is due to these effects that propellers are known to suffer from dramatically decreased performance as they approach the speed of sound. It is easy to demonstrate that the power needed to improve performance is so great that the weight of the required engine grows faster than the power output of the propeller can compensate. This problem was one that led to early research into jet engines, notably by Frank Whittle in England and Hans von Ohain in Germany, who were led to their research specifically in order to avoid these problems in high-speed flight.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_barrier

The only supersonic blades I am aware of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_XF-84H

_________________
What goes up better doggone well stay up! - Morgan Gravitronics, Company Slogan.


Back to top
Profile ICQ YIM
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 am
Posts: 255
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:45 am
idiom wrote:
Apart from the lack of existing materials that can operate continuously at mach 5... let alone as a propeller tip in a continuous sonic boom next to multiple other sources of shock it will moving in and out of many times a second, the power draw will be truly enormous.

Quote:
The tip of the propeller on many early aircraft may reach supersonic speeds, producing a noticeable buzz that differentiates such aircraft. This is particularly noticeable on the Stearman, and noticeable on the North American T-6 Texan when it enters a sharp-breaking turn. This is undesirable, as the transonic air movement creates disruptive shock waves and turbulence. It is due to these effects that propellers are known to suffer from dramatically decreased performance as they approach the speed of sound. It is easy to demonstrate that the power needed to improve performance is so great that the weight of the required engine grows faster than the power output of the propeller can compensate. This problem was one that led to early research into jet engines, notably by Frank Whittle in England and Hans von Ohain in Germany, who were led to their research specifically in order to avoid these problems in high-speed flight.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_barrier

The only supersonic blades I am aware of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_XF-84H


Yes Idiom I am very well informed about this diminutive propeller experiment in front of a jet plane ( which btw did go supersonic, but not officially ) that hardly reached 14 000 meters in altitude ( XF-84 ) and was made of metal.

I would concentrate on the fact that pressure in 80 km is 1/20 000th of the sea level as is the density + also the viscosity is low. These are all factors in the phenomena called compressibility that affects negatively all metal object trying to stay airborne below 100 000 ft in level flight.

Also it is know that a solar craft Helios flew 10 times faster in 30 000 meters than in sea level...with really diminutive propellers. I only hope that putting 200 % more power to solar power using batteries will be enuf to put the plane beyond mach 1.

So if no one is willing to build this really cheap "escalator" to the heavens then I have to shut up. This is consuming all my time.

Thank you all for your time. You were a great audience...Elvis has exited the building..over and out !

:|

BTW: If Baumgartner had had the means to jump from 50 km ( 150 000 ft ) would he have reached Mach 2 or Mach 3 speed in free fall ? Any calculations ?

_________________
http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/

http://max3fan.blogspot.com/


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:01 am
Posts: 766
Location: New Zealand
Post Re: Aeroplane that reaches 80 km altitude !   Posted on: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:19 am
The power requirement would be more like 400% or 1600% which is the problem.

The power draw will increase twice as fast as you increase the solarcells.

_________________
What goes up better doggone well stay up! - Morgan Gravitronics, Company Slogan.


Back to top
Profile ICQ YIM
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 195 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
 

Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests


cron
© 2017 The International Space Fellowship, developed by Gabitasoft Interactive. All Rights Reserved.  Privacy Policy | Terms of Use